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can I paste up a list of books for sale? PM
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Paul Murphy=20
To: heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: Topic
I have read WH Auden, but a long time ago. I thought he was a better =
writer than Eliot/Plath/Pound although some of their work would be more =
to my taste. Where I think he's better is in his moral and political =
objections, his conscientiousness, his consciousness. He undoubtedly =
wrote some of the greatest poems ever written. Have you any ideas on =
Auden?
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Paul Murphy=20
To: heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: Topic
also, no real writer sits down and deliberately pens a sonnet, or =
uses a spondee or a caesura and rationalises that if a piece of writing =
has these things then it is of necessity 'poetry'. You might just as =
well end up with a turgid and unreadable piece of nonsense. I would =
argue that most of the writing so constructed is nonsense, and more by =
accident than design are the poems written with form that actually =
succeed in their effects. Again it's a question of talent, of =
relevance, of the market, of convention. =20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Paul Murphy=20
To: heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: Topic
I think you should give examples of the forms you mention. =
Without grounding those theories your discourse sounds very abstract. =
Also, not just how the new forms changed things, but why? If you say, =
well they just did, or this was a radical new conception so there, I =
think you have to admit that this was just a new convention, a new =
fashion and changed nothing on any other level. If so, I think there's =
no problem with writing alliterative verse since it is clearly just a =
choice of convention which is only really a matter of taste. In that =
case one should write rap because that is the convention, not sonnets or =
blank verse. Can you outline the conventions of rap? =20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Jason Stuart=20
To: heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 4:00 AM
Subject: Re: Topic
>you are approaching an artform from an academic standpoint. =20
As of this writing that's still legal in this country. =
Convention, prosody, "academe"--I don't remember introducing those =
subjects.
My main point is that your second poem is taking too much from =
"Lady Lazarus" and it would be good for you to read some Auden. =
Whatever my approach is, it's better than being ignorant.=20
>All the great writers of history just wrote. They abosrbed the =
language of their day and >wrote and later on academics made up things =
like sonnets, dactyls and blank verse, >quantative verse and the rest. =20
"Quantitative." And don't be ridiculous. You sound like a =
sixteen-year-old.=20
>academic seminar...writer's workshop
Most academic poetry is aggressively workshopped. Most =
workshopped poetry is academic. There is no difference between the two. =
That's why most of it is pretty bad. =20
Wise up,
JS =20
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>can I paste up a list of books for sale? =
PM</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DVillanova@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
href=3D"
mailto:Villanova@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>Paul Murphy</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dheidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
=
href=3D"
mailto:heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>heidegger@xxxxxxxxxx=
age.virginia.edu</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 22, =
2003 5:04=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Topic</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have read WH Auden, but a long time ago. I =
thought=20
he was a better writer than Eliot/Plath/Pound although some of their =
work=20
would be more to my taste. Where I think he's better is in his =
moral and=20
political objections, his conscientiousness, his consciousness. =
He=20
undoubtedly wrote some of the greatest poems ever written. Have =
you any=20
ideas on Auden?</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DVillanova@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
href=3D"
mailto:Villanova@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>Paul Murphy</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dheidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
=
href=3D"
mailto:heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>heidegger@xxxxxxxxxx=
age.virginia.edu</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 22, =
2003 4:58=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Topic</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>also, no real writer sits down and deliberately =
pens a=20
sonnet, or uses a spondee or a caesura and rationalises that if a =
piece of=20
writing has these things then it is of necessity 'poetry'. You =
might=20
just as well end up with a turgid and unreadable piece of =
nonsense. I=20
would argue that most of the writing so constructed is nonsense, and =
more by=20
accident than design are the poems written with form that actually =
succeed=20
in their effects. Again it's a question of talent, of =
relevance, of=20
the market, of convention. </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DVillanova@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
href=3D"
mailto:Villanova@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>Paul Murphy</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dheidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
=
href=3D"
mailto:heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>heidegger@xxxxxxxxxx=
age.virginia.edu</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February =
22, 2003=20
1:09 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Topic</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I think you should give examples of the forms =
you=20
mention. Without grounding those theories your discourse =
sounds very=20
abstract. Also, not just how the new forms changed=20
things, but why? If you say, well they just did, or =
this was a=20
radical new conception so there, I think you have to admit that =
this was=20
just a new convention, a new fashion and changed nothing on =
any other=20
level. If so, I think there's no problem with writing =
alliterative=20
verse since it is clearly just a choice of convention =
which is=20
only really a matter of taste. In that case one should write =
rap=20
because that is the convention, not sonnets or blank =
verse. Can=20
you outline the conventions of rap? </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Djts0803odon@xxxxxxxxx =
href=3D"
mailto:jts0803odon@xxxxxxxxx";>Jason=20
Stuart</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dheidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
=
href=3D"
mailto:heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>heidegger@xxxxxxxxxx=
age.virginia.edu</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February =
22, 2003=20
4:00 AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Topic</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>>you are approaching an artform from an =
academic=20
standpoint. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As of this writing that's still legal in this =
country. =20
Convention, prosody, "academe"--I don't remember introducing =
those=20
subjects.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>My main point is that your second poem is taking too much =
from=20
"Lady Lazarus" and it would be good for you to read some =
Auden. =20
Whatever my approach is, it's better than being ignorant. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>>All the great writers of history just =
wrote. =20
</FONT><FONT size=3D2>They abosrbed the language of their day =
and=20
>wrote and later on academics made up things like sonnets, =
dactyls=20
and blank verse, >quantative verse and the rest. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>"Quantitative." And don't be =
ridiculous. =20
You sound like a sixteen-year-old. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>>academic seminar...writer's workshop</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Most academic poetry is aggressively=20
workshopped. Most workshopped poetry is academic. =
There is=20
no difference between the two. That's why most of it =
is=20
pretty bad. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Wise up,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>JS </FONT></DIV>
<P><BR>
<HR SIZE=3D1>
Do you Yahoo!?<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"
http://rd.yahoo.com/finance/mailtagline/*http://taxes.yahoo.com/"=
>Yahoo!=20
Tax Center</A> - forms, calculators, tips, and=20
more</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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