----- Original Message -----
From: "Bakker, R.B.M. de" <R.B.M.deBakker@xxxxxx>
To: <heidegger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 7:14 AM
Subject: RE: feminization
> Now reading Zarathustra, i would say:
> you don't need interpretations anymore,
> it can be seen right away.
Yes. Don't need them. I think Zarathustra is highly allegorical, Yea Saying.
As for it's critical content and commentary, I am not sure that there is any
thing there. I am not sure if this would fit into any speculative labelling
either. I personally do not meditate much on Christ and Socrates and high
flyin eagles and serpents. Karl Jung has attempted to interpret Thus Spake
Zarathustra.
>
> When he attacks the Hinterweltlern, all those
> fleeing for, cursing the sensuous, before meeting
> and evt. thinking it to the end: if you deny
> sensuousness, it will shine through in everything
> you do and say.
>
> "The houndess sensuousness / die Huendin Sinnlichkeit."
>
>
http://www.hamilton.net.au/nietzsche/zarathustra/zara023.html
>
> English and German!
>
> -------
>
> Are you a slave? Then you cannot be a friend.
It is hard to imagine what it is to be a slave! I can imagine the slave in
Barrabas (a novel) who was chained to a Christian. Early Christians were
enslaved, chained up and so on. Slaves in southern US prior to 1863 (before
the proclamation), what did they feel? Only the whip?
What does this exactly mean: "then you cannot be a friend." I don't know
other than to suggest that a slave cannot be friend of an aristocrat, no?
> Are you a tyrant? Then you cannot have friends.
This one is easy, and obvious.
> Far too long has there been a slave and a tyrant concealed
> in woman. On that account woman is not yet capable of friendship:
> she knows only love.
Her emancipation in the 1800's was not even emininent in a social and
political context, hence enslaved and capable of tyranny. Friendship is more
than love. Knowing love is not loving apparently.
> In woman's love there is injustice and blindness to all she doth
> not love.
Dialectical mind playing. In justice we come to know 'equality' and love is
not a feeling, but an act of equality. I am not sure what this about. Of
course it is all allegorical, and full of psychological metaphorical
generalities.
> And even in woman's knowing love, there is still
> always surprise and lightning and night, along with the light.
> As yet woman is not capable of friendship: women are still cats,
> and birds. Or at the best, cows.
It is becoming apparent that Nietzsche is referring to woman as an archetype
of the soul within both sexs: a capacity of the male persona. This is also
what men project and inflate onto women
> As yet woman is not capable of friendship. But tell me, you men,
> who of you are capable of friendship?
> [it is *here* that we get closest to feminization, with the men!-rdb]
>
> Oh! your poverty, you men, and your sordidness of soul!
> As much as you give to your friend, will I give even to my enemy,
> and will not have become poorer thereby.
>
> There is comradeship: may there be friendship!
>
> Thus spake Zarathustra.
It seems like Nietzsche is alluding to friendship as an ideal, a
teleological possibility, a romantic union in a far off and distant heaven
(reminds me of Baudillaire's Fleurs du Mal). Friendship is really a deep
promise implicitly understood between two, whether M/F or M/M or F/F or even
thrice. Christ therefore represents 'bride, the soul' [San Juan de La Crux].
chao
johnF
>
>
> Friendship. Hoelderlin: Die Freundlichkeit (charis, Dionysos)
>
> "Darf, wenn lauter Mühe das Leben,
> ein Mensch aufschauen und
> sagen, so will ich auch sein?
> Ja. Solange die Freundlichkeit noch
> am Herzen, die Reine, dauert, misset
> nicht unglücklich der Mensch sich
> mit der Gottheit..."
>
> "May, when mere trouble life,
> a mensch look up [to the sky]
> and say, that's how i want to be too?
> Yes. As long as friendliness, the pure,
> lasts near the heart,
> measures not unhappy the mensch himself
> with the godhood."
> -
>
> Without friendliness, it is all worthless
> Heidegger quotes and comments(!) this in: "...dichterisch
> wohnet der Mensch..." (Vortraege & Aufsaetze, II)
>
>
> These are the things that are stronger than nuclear power.
> While those damned 'Christians' do everything out of fear
> for it. How faithful they are, br.
>
>
> rene
>
>
>
>
>
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